Mister Mister
That Mitt Romney had to make a speech at all about religion is a sign of how much trouble he's in. If someone's religion is important enough to affect his political choices, it's worth knowing about, but we have Romney's record as a politician plus his stands on many issues, and the fact he's a Mormon doesn't really enter into it.
It does seem to be true that a not insignificant percentage of Americans have trouble voting for Mormons (though I don't think that's the main reason his campaign's in trouble), so perhaps Mitt had to speak out. Too bad the speech was so predictable.
It consisted mostly of mindless pieties, with Romney trying to be all things to all religious people (though non-religious people can go screw themselves). I don't know how others felt, but I think less of Romney now.
posted by LAGuy @ 12:38 AM
9 Comments:
In his list of the different religions and his respect for each, I wonder what would have happened if he had added a praiseworthy trait he has found in atheists?
The part of the speech that is the most problematic is when he intimates that the LDS church is "Christian". Whether Mormons are Christians is a point that is highly debated today, and in fact there are few issues that seem to get Mormons on the internet as riled up as when they are called non-Christian.
My personal opinion is that, while this question is obviously semantic, it is not without interest. If the LDS church had never existed, there would be several different reasonable and defensible definitions of the word "Christian", and in fact the LDS church qualifies as Christian under some of these definitions and not others.
However, it seems to me that this is entirely out of place in a political speech. Kennedy, in his famous 1960 speech, made no attempt to argue that Catholics were Christians or that they were following the Bible, or anything like that.
Indeed, by putting this in his speech, it seems that Romney is actually giving support to the position that Christians should not vote for non-Christian candidates, and that is a very bad thing. Obviously that wasn't his intent -- I'm sure he would love nothing more than for the religion issue to go away entirely. But he should have said to himself: those voters who believe that (1) Mormons are not Christians, and that (2) one should not vote for a non-Christian will probably never vote for me. But if I have any way of persuading them, I need to address their belief # 2, not their belief # 1.
That was part of my disappointment. I thought he should have said the equivalent of "sure, I'm a Mormon, but I will serve all Americans and that's what counts." Too much (any is too much) of the speech was closer to "I'm a religious guy just like you, and isn't it great to be religious, and my religion isn't scary at all."
The founding beliefs of Mormonism- which seem to non-believers to ridiculous fakery from the 19th century-throw discredit on the founding beliefs of the other established religions therefore it is in organized religion's interest to close the club- although there is also practice that it is somehow improper to question one's "faith" (no doubt promoted by adherents of organized religion- don't want to have anyone looking too closely at the assumptions)
It seems Romney's beliefs to thte extent they influence policy are as relevant as Dennis Kucinich's in UFOs or John McCain's in voodoo economics
I find it hard to know how anyone could think less of Romney based on the speech- I mean what was there to think more of before it?
He was a governor with little or no accomplishments who left his state utterly reviled. He attempted a venture-capitalist top-down management style which failed at inception and he never adjusted. He campaigned for republicans mid term and actually lost seats. His successor, a hand-picked lieutenant governor was wiped out by a political novice. Running for President was sort of a promotion of incompetence - he certainly could not have been re-elected in Massachusetts. He said what was necessary to get elected in 2002 and has now done a 180 to say what he thinks he needs to say to become the Republican candidate. I think he has ruined the idea of businessmen (at least VCists) as effective political leaders for at least a generation.
He may have had some pretty words in his speech but based past performance its hard to see how it meant anything
"Voodoo economics"? You mean the stuff that's helped us prosper for the last quarter century?
I really don't know much about Romney's tenure in Massachusetts. Perhaps New England Guy could enlighten us. But leaving his state reviled? Maybe Ted Kennedy's done that for some, but I wasn't aware the state had any particular pr problem. Anyway, I'd think that Romney running a state that's seen as liberal could only help him in the general election.
Romney had to accomplish a different goal than Kennedy had to in his speech. Kennedy was arguing to a bunch of establishment types who didn't really care about religion that he wouldn't be bossed around by his religion or by the Pope. (Yes, I know Kennedy was actually addressing Protestant ministers in the room, but he was addressing the concerns of the establishment.) Kennedy already had the Democratic nomination, so he was also addressing the center.
Romney is trying to get a nomination from a party that includes a strong base of conservative Christians who believe that religion should be a centerpiece of moral government decisionmaking. That's why he was trying to emphasize his commonality with them.
I'm no Romney fan, but some of the desires expressed above about what he should have said seem very wishful and disregard the actual state of the Republican party. Romney seemed to me to be doing exactly what he would have to do to deal with this issue. Explaining to this group why they should be comfortable voting for a "non-Christian" would be a non-starter.
Whether what he was able to do will be enough, however, remains to be seen.
Peggy Noonan liked the speech, except that she, too, faults him on not lauding atheists!
link here
The right wing, as far as I could tell, and certainly social conservatives, liked the speech. Most of them got mad when anyone suggested he kept out atheists--either saying they're in their somewhere (since they support religious liberty too) or it doesn't matter because they're a joke.
The left wing, by and large, didn't like the speech. Since Romney right now is trying to win in the Republican primaries, and Mike Huckabee is now getting the religious vote that Romney may have hoped he'd get (and Romney's religion is being questioned), I suppose it was the proper strategic move. Still, the question is if it's too late or, for that matter, what his Mormonism a bomb waiting to go off all along.
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